Maze 1x1 Maze0001 (Hard?, B Rank?)

Near

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Not sure how to scale mazes. If it's a difficulty level out of 4(easy, medium, hard, expert), then it's probably hard. But since I'm a weeb I scale things D, C, B, A, S. So this is a B!

maze0001_COMPLETED.png

Code:
Assault&Maze0001&1&16&12&0,23,19,23,23,23,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,19,0,0,23,19,0,19,19,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,23,19,0,37,0,23,0,23,23,23,19,0,19,0,19,23,19,0,19,19,23,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,19,23,23,0,0,0,0,0,0,19,0,0,0,0,0,23,0,0,0,0,0,23,23,0,0,0,0,19,0,19,0,23,0,0,0,0,19,0,0,0,0,23,0,19,0,19,0,0,0,19,0,0,19,23,19,0,23,19,23,0,0,19,0,0,0,0,0,0,19,0,23,0,0,23,19,0,19,19,23,0,23,23,0,0,19,23,19,0,23,0,23,0,0,23,0,0,0,19,19,23,0,19,23,23,0,0,0,0,19,0,23,0,23,23,0,19,0,23,0,23,0,1,0,0,19,23,0,0,0,19,0,23,19,0
 

lilroosterbutt

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I thought I was harsh with my grading system, but then you come along and call this a "B" maze.

What in the world is an A or S rank maze to you? :laugh: :cry:
 

Near

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I thought I was harsh with my grading system, but then you come along and call this a "B" maze.

What in the world is an A or S rank maze to you? :laugh: :cry:
21 fps B
60 fps S

I think the issue is that you guys just aren't manly enough to do it

60fps makes mazing much easier though lmao. Not to mention this maze is just impossible in 21fps.

I gave it a B because it was relatively easy to beat. And quite timely as-well (I updated the post with the "me having completed the maze" screenshot I took before I posted the maze here).

The first combo's individual jumps are C - B Rank, IMO. Same with the rest. The only A Rank glitch here would be the rhy slide (again, IMO).

Perhaps @lilroosterbutt , we should come up with a more streamlined format for maze rating; and even an individual glitch rating?
 

lilroosterbutt

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Perhaps @lilroosterbutt , we should come up with a more streamlined format for maze rating; and even an individual glitch rating?

Aw yes, an official Pawn Mazing Michelin Star Guide? or have ELO rankings for maps? :laugh: :cry:

imo it's kind of hard to assign a maze a difficulty score, since there are lots of factors at play. longer combos, specific glitches/jumps, lag requirements automatically make a maze more difficult. same goes for requiring players to backtrack on previously completed screens, where failing a specific jump/glitch forces a redo a portion of the maze.
 

shizangle

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60fps makes mazing much easier though lmao. Not to mention this maze is just impossible in 21fps.

I gave it a B because it was relatively easy to beat. And quite timely as-well (I updated the post with the "me having completed the maze" screenshot I took before I posted the maze here).

The first combo's individual jumps are C - B Rank, IMO. Same with the rest. The only A Rank glitch here would be the rhy slide (again, IMO).

Perhaps @lilroosterbutt , we should come up with a more streamlined format for maze rating; and even an individual glitch rating?

the assumption that the clash is possible on 21 fps is where I base my grade. in my eyes that is a minimalistic way of doing a clash because the glitch doesn't change even if you add a ladder above. it's literally the glitch "a clash" that you are basing the rank on, unless you want to change the name of it completely.. clashes are possible on 21 fps.

60 fps is not easier than 21
the mazes we completed on 21 fps were WAY more difficult (and less time consuming) than those that are done today for one reason -> the ease of consistency.
if you're basing the statistic of how 60 fps makes mazing easier, then you are not basing your results from mazing on 21 fps.

here are some mazes from back when...
PingMaze69:
1551691599117.png

PingMaze67:
1551692006082.png1551692015809.png

PingMaze65:
1551692097966.png

back when I would use both index fingers to time reverse ladderless….
 

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Near

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Aw yes, an official Pawn Mazing Michelin Star Guide? or have ELO rankings for maps? :laugh: :cry:

imo it's kind of hard to assign a maze a difficulty score, since there are lots of factors at play. longer combos, specific glitches/jumps, lag requirements automatically make a maze more difficult. same goes for requiring players to backtrack on previously completed screens, where failing a specific jump/glitch forces a redo a portion of the maze.

Hm, if each glitch had a rating, we could do something like:

each glitch in the combo gets added up based on individual rating which is then compared to a high rating. So if the rating for each glitch in a combo is 1, and there are 3, then the combo rating would be 3. If 5 is required to bump it up to a C for the whole combo, then that combo just stays D, or something.

Other factors like having to redo, and lag, maybe don't need to be factored in. The rating can just be based on the actual glitches, and have nothing to do with whether or not you do it all in one go?

the assumption that the clash is possible on 21 fps is where I base my grade. in my eyes that is a minimalistic way of doing a clash because the glitch doesn't change even if you add a ladder above. it's literally the glitch "a clash" that you are basing the rank on, unless you want to change the name of it completely.. clashes are possible on 21 fps.

60 fps is not easier than 21
the mazes we completed on 21 fps were WAY more difficult (and less time consuming) than those that are done today for one reason -> the ease of consistency.
if you're basing the statistic of how 60 fps makes mazing easier, then you are not basing your results from mazing on 21 fps.

back when I would use both index fingers to time reverse ladderless….

Clashing is not what the grade is based on? I'm not sure what you mean.

Yes, I used to maze in old Pawn. Yes, I would switch versions to get 21 fps and 24 fps for certain glitches. Yes, 60 fps makes mazing much more stream-lined and overall *easier*. Long, more complex mazes can be created, they just haven't been. That has nothing to do with whether individual glitches are harder or easier on either fps. Rhyslides are easier on 60 fps. V, V to ladder are easier on 60 FPS. Simply clashing is easier on 60 fps. I can't think of a single glitch or jump that got harder, actually (things that became impossible don't count).

Not to mention that simply being able to see your character smoothly, and not jittering the heck around when you're trying to complete a glitch, is much better.

Eitherway, old 21 fps pawn is available. Not sure why you haven't just moved to mazing over there if you're clearly so against it on the 60 fps client.
 

shizangle

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Hm, if each glitch had a rating, we could do something like:

each glitch in the combo gets added up based on individual rating which is then compared to a high rating. So if the rating for each glitch in a combo is 1, and there are 3, then the combo rating would be 3. If 5 is required to bump it up to a C for the whole combo, then that combo just stays D, or something.

Other factors like having to redo, and lag, maybe don't need to be factored in. The rating can just be based on the actual glitches, and have nothing to do with whether or not you do it all in one go?



Clashing is not what the grade is based on? I'm not sure what you mean.

Yes, I used to maze in old Pawn. Yes, I would switch versions to get 21 fps and 24 fps for certain glitches. Yes, 60 fps makes mazing much more stream-lined and overall *easier*. Long, more complex mazes can be created, they just haven't been. That has nothing to do with whether individual glitches are harder or easier on either fps. Rhyslides are easier on 60 fps. V, V to ladder are easier on 60 FPS. Simply clashing is easier on 60 fps. I can't think of a single glitch or jump that got harder, actually (things that became impossible don't count).

Not to mention that simply being able to see your character smoothly, and not jittering the heck around when you're trying to complete a glitch, is much better.

Eitherway, old 21 fps pawn is available. Not sure why you haven't just moved to mazing over there if you're clearly so against it on the 60 fps client.

rhyslides are easier on 60 fps, are you joking? I can reverse ladderless rhyslide consistently 5x in a row on 21 fps.

It takes me 10x to do one regular rhyslide on 60 fps bc the leeway for the timing is 10x faster..

regular rhyslide on 21 fps is way easier than 60 dude, and that goes with just about everything down to the fundamentals such as AKA.

Ladderless is a prime example of how 60 fps is far more difficult than 21
 

Near

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rhyslides are easier on 60 fps, are you joking? I can reverse ladderless rhyslide consistently 5x in a row on 21 fps.

It takes me 10x to do one regular rhyslide on 60 fps bc the leeway for the timing is 10x faster..

regular rhyslide on 21 fps is way easier than 60 dude, and that goes with just about everything down to the fundamentals such as AKA.

I can do rhyslides more regularly on 60 fps than on 21 fps. That goes for about every glitch. To say that it's not the case is just silly.

Neither Lil nor I seem to have any issues with the "difficulty" spike of 60 fps. So I'm not sure what the issue is. Perhaps it's that we put in more time on the new patch. I, for one, prefer this more "difficult" mazing. :)

But again, there's a 21 fps version out. Feel free to maze on the easier client if you wish.
 

shizangle

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I can do rhyslides more regularly on 60 fps than on 21 fps. That goes for about every glitch. To say that it's not the case is just silly.

Neither Lil nor I seem to have any issues with the "difficulty" spike of 60 fps. So I'm not sure what the issue is. Perhaps it's that we put in more time on the new patch. I, for one, prefer this more "difficult" mazing. :)

But again, there's a 21 fps version out. Feel free to maze on the easier client if you wish.

There isn't a 21 version out... That is 24 FPS which is worse than 60 in every aspect
 

Near

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That version is the original version. In order to get the 21 fps you need to switch to a very old version of flash. Not sure which. @lilroosterbutt might remember.
 

shizangle

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That version is the original version. In order to get the 21 fps you need to switch to a very old version of flash. Not sure which. @lilroosterbutt might remember.

You need to switch to flash player 9.. FP9 is an obsolete version of flash with windows 10 and current versions of web browsers. You would have to run a virtualization server using hyper-v or VMWARE running XP in which case you are inheritably getting input lag making mazing extremely difficult

it's also worth mentioning that inputs for mazing are best with internet explorer 7, which isn't even compatible with Windows 10
 

lilroosterbutt

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Sounds like the problem is purely lag based then?

As in, the only reason jumps/glitches work in this game is due to:
>the user sending inputs to the game servers
>the game servers sending back late replies
>resulting in user receiving late replies from the server + sending late replies back to the server
>and then, the server just kind of guesses the location of the user based on late replies?

So if we were to have a 1:1 timing/frame syncing game code in place to the accuracy of fighting games, that would get rid of glitches in general because the game servers + client side would all be in sync with one another, and the game code doesn't have codes for glitches in the first place?

Meaning if you now wish to maze in 2019 with 0 lag input, you will need to recode Pawn from the ground up to:
A. Have no lag between servers and users
B. Have button inputs/scripts in place for mazing glitches?

And so, due to lots of Flash apps, Internet Explorers, and Computers in general already too advanced in 2019 compared to 2007, it is highly unlikely for a true 2007 mazing experience again, unless extensive resources and time is spent backtracking progress to recreate an old-school version running on some virtual environment that simulates 2007 PG?

@shizangle maybe instead of recreating PG, you should first recreate a Pawn Mazing game, so that all button inputs can be super crispy and synced across all users + the server? And then, due to having everything all synced together, the shooting aspect should be even more refined as what we have now? And due to everything generally being better, we can also still have that 60 fps smoothness as we have now, compared to 21/24 fps, or maybe even smoother than what we have now?

From everything I've gathered, it doesn't seem like FPS is really the issue. Rather, it's the limitations of the game itself, and the fact that we've just moved on from antiquated things (IE, computers, Flash, etc). So, to truly get that 2007 (is it even 2007? I don't remember) mazing experience, we might as well just rework Pawn into some newer game engine or coding (is HTML5 the answer?), and code in mazing inputs to recreate Pawn mazing.

I'm not a dev, I dunno.
 

shizangle

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Sounds like the problem is purely lag based then?

As in, the only reason jumps/glitches work in this game is due to:
>the user sending inputs to the game servers
>the game servers sending back late replies
>resulting in user receiving late replies from the server + sending late replies back to the server
>and then, the server just kind of guesses the location of the user based on late replies?

So if we were to have a 1:1 timing/frame syncing game code in place to the accuracy of fighting games, that would get rid of glitches in general because the game servers + client side would all be in sync with one another, and the game code doesn't have codes for glitches in the first place?

Meaning if you now wish to maze in 2019 with 0 lag input, you will need to recode Pawn from the ground up to:
A. Have no lag between servers and users
B. Have button inputs/scripts in place for mazing glitches?

And so, due to lots of Flash apps, Internet Explorers, and Computers in general already too advanced in 2019 compared to 2007, it is highly unlikely for a true 2007 mazing experience again, unless extensive resources and time is spent backtracking progress to recreate an old-school version running on some virtual environment that simulates 2007 PG?

@shizangle maybe instead of recreating PG, you should first recreate a Pawn Mazing game, so that all button inputs can be super crispy and synced across all users + the server? And then, due to having everything all synced together, the shooting aspect should be even more refined as what we have now? And due to everything generally being better, we can also still have that 60 fps smoothness as we have now, compared to 21/24 fps, or maybe even smoother than what we have now?

From everything I've gathered, it doesn't seem like FPS is really the issue. Rather, it's the limitations of the game itself, and the fact that we've just moved on from antiquated things (IE, computers, Flash, etc). So, to truly get that 2007 (is it even 2007? I don't remember) mazing experience, we might as well just rework Pawn into some newer game engine or coding (is HTML5 the answer?), and code in mazing inputs to recreate Pawn mazing.

I'm not a dev, I dunno.

I simply do not have the time to recreate a multiplayer platformer with GML. There also is not sufficient documentation online and I refuse to go to school for game design with the likes of astrophysics, engineering, and cosmology.

The most simple answer I can think of is to find a way to export PG at 21 FPS instead of 24.

Also, I don't know if it's due to my hardware - but I run PG beyond 60 fps which makes it extremely difficult to maze because i'm consistantly getting 62 FPS on chrome. (similarly to how 24 fps is drastically different than 21 fps. a 3 FPS difference)
Ryzen 2700x
EVGA 1080 Ti
 

lilroosterbutt

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why would 21 fps be different from 24 fps?

wouldn't it just be more choppy than 24 fps? exactly 3 frames more choppy? or would there be a huge difference in how the game updates button inputs + updates your side of the game.
 

shizangle

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why would 21 fps be different from 24 fps?

wouldn't it just be more choppy than 24 fps? exactly 3 frames more choppy? or would there be a huge difference in how the game updates button inputs + updates your side of the game.

the physics of the game are handled per frame. so the more frames you add or remove, the more different the game becomes.

21 fps allows your character to align in certain ways with the ground/ladders that makes it extremely consistent. despite how "choppy" it may appear.
 
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